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Verify / Recover

We are a 10 person agency using C&P Classic 4.0. I am the business manager and am having to spend a lot of time combing through the active job tickets to check whether the "unbilled" total on the main job ticket window matches the unbilled total in the WIP window. Frequently the totals don't match and I have to verify/recover to get them to match.

Lately, I have been printing out a lot of "before and after" WIP windows to try to determine what time is getting lost and have found that, when I look back at older reports, the time, vendor invoice, etc. has shown up in the WIP window in the past, then disappears or gets lost for some reason, and is recovered later when I verify/ recover.

Has anyone else run into this kind of problem? If so, what was the source of the problem? The C&P tech people keep insisting that it is most likely a hardware problem, but if it were, why would the time entries, etc., make it to the correct destination at first and then disappear later???

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

When data is referred to as disappearing and reappearing that is a clear indication or data problems and hardware issues. However, what is more often the case is that data is not disappearing and reappearing it's just not in the place that it's expected to be.

Verify/Recover is a tool that recalculates data. For example, when you Verify/Recover a job ticket it is recalculating it's totals (i.e., the numbers you see on the job ticket window) based upon the detail from the cost and billing reports. It does not repair any files.

There are specific circumstances that will lead to the job's WIP to be different than the job totals. The best way to trouble-shoot and understand the job's WIP vs the job's totals is to print out the Job Summary, Job Cost by Task, and Job Billings report. Then re-run the exact same reports after the Verify Recover (you'll need to specify to the C&P Helpdesk exactly which Verify/Recover your running). From the reports being run before and after the C&P Helpdesk will be able to help you understand what happened.

Rhonda Brazelton Clients & Profits R&D

The problem I have with the WIP is when my accounting department does not bill the invoice properly. When they don't bill every task or they over bill on some tasks, etc... Then the billings do not match the WIP. I have not had a problem with costs disappearing.

Ed Miller Business Manager Grafica, Inc.

C&P People always blame the hardware - I know this can be frustrating. I used Classic 3.2 but maybe some of these will apply to 4.0 as well. One of the things that I have noticed is that the WIP function in the job ticket window can be different from a number of reasons: 1) if you bill a job "to estimate", the unbilled costs do not seem to update in quite the same was as if you bill as job by using the "add an invoice" or the "progress/final" billing window. 2) if you pre-bill anything (ie if you bill from a PO) and then the cost arrives subsequently, the cost shows up as an unbilled cost - I guess this is natural but you do have to go back to the WIP and update it. 3) If you post and unpost an invoice or adjust or move costs around after the billing or progress billing, you often have to verify/recover just to re-attach the contents of the file.

Hope this helps,

Elizabeth Love Donahoe & Purohit ealove

Not exactly. What I've found is that if I don't go in to the WIP every time after I bill a job (and I don't), than there's a good chance that the unbilled column on the job summary report will not match the unbilled column on the job task cost report. And when I do go into the WIP on a job, and select the green check mark, the system automatically assigns costs to the oldest invoices first. Which can be a problem if I haven't billed in order or have received invoices late,etc. I haven't spent enough time in researching this, and perhaps I'm just not doing it right. It is frustrating, though, when I'm trying to pull back-up on a job and go into the job task report, and the numbers are wrong. This isn't exactly the same problem as you're having - I'm comparing the job summary and task report and you're comparing the job ticket to the WIP report. But I wonder if we're both doing something wrong.

Mary McMurtrey Just Partners

On your electronic job ticket, the bottom left hand button is your WIP. Click on it and you will se your job costs and options to go with, including "verify job costs and billings. Problem here is it will apply billings to job costs in cronological order and NOT receivable to payable.

Only way to avoid this...don't prebill. I personally prefer to prebill, if I see items left unbilled at end of job, I check it manually to see which job cost wasn't billed.

Sebastian Ogden Quantum Communications

Hi Mary,

I find that if I bill the job to estimate that it doesn't update the WIP. Have you noticed how much more quickly an invoice is generated using "by estimate" than just by adding an invoice or doing a progress billing? When I do a progress or use the "add an invoice" method, a screen comes up saying "updating job costs". That screen doesn't show up for estimate billings. I've found that you always have to click the green check mark to update estimate billings but sometimes the progress billings are already marked as billed when you get to the WIP window.

Elizabeth Love Consumer Strategies Group

We've had problems with inaccurate WIPs for several years, and most of the discrepancies appear to be due to prebilled P.O.s. What do you mean by "go back to the WIP and update it"?

Russ Norwood 2g Marketing Communications

We recently began using the "Advance Bill" function. If you bill for something before the costs are in, you use this type of invoice. When the costs are in, you generate another invoice and "apply advance bills". That way your WIP is always accurate. You still have to click the green check mark, but everything is accurate. (There is a report under Job Ticket Reports...Analysis that gives you a list of all jobs with Advance Billing)

Jonathan Gundlach Hanson Dodge

Hi Jonathon,

What version of C&P are you using? I don't think I have this in Classic 3.2, although the ability to track invoices in this way makes an upgrade appealing!

Elizabeth Love Consumer Strategies Group Inc.

Mary,

When we bill before costs are posted on the jobs, it does get confusing for the account executive who is looking at the billed costs versus the detail for billed costs. I usually go into WIP and Verify "green check mark" before final billing. The problem is, accounting would almost have to go in on a weekly basis to monitor all jobs that have been billed and look for costs that had been posted and do a verify. That is just not realistic. We have approximately 200 active jobs. I don't know the answer but since our account executives have complete control over their own jobs and costs, it is very confusing to explain they have to verify their jobs each time to get a true picture of unbilled costs. The other problem is if we bill ahead on a task, that ends up being less than estimated, it shows a credit for that task, but not enough additional billing dollars to cover the unbilled costs for a different task. If you bill on an advance billing, you can't apply sales tax. Sometimes the advance billing ends up being the final amount due, so then we would have to generate a final invoice just for sales tax.

Our account executives are trained to monitor their own jobs since they know the client budget and what percentage they need to mark up to make a profit. They assign who is working on their jobs, so they know when time is put on the job incorrectly. Our invoices are matched to a PO and sent to the originator for final approval before they are posted in accounting. That way there aren't too many surprises on outside costs that the account executive is unaware of.

Deanna Cummins David K Burnap Advertising Agency Inc

Hi Russ,

You can go back to the job ticket at any time, go into the WIP window, select the green check mark and the costs will be updated (albeit from the oldest to the newest). This works well for pre-billed PO's etc. I do find however, that if I have unposted and reposted jobs or made any significant changes to PO's or accounts payable that I often have to do a verify/recover to "re-attach" the job costs. It usually works pretty well.

Elizabeth Love Consumer Strategies Group Inc.

The verify/recover function in the program is designed to be used to update the status of costs that are recorded after you have already billed them.

If you prebill a costs or bill based on estimate and then record costs as the vendor invoices are received and time is added to the job ticket, those costs do not know they have been billed. The green check mark verify/recover button takes all the costs and billings and applies the billings to the oldest costs first. This is part of keeping your work in process up to date within the program.

Bonnie Burlew Clients & Profits Support