Topic

Messages

Server Survey

Hi,

I'd like to know what other agencies are using for servers. We have a small cross platform network here with approx. 6 PCs (various OS: Win 98, 2000 and XP) and 10 Macs (mostly OS 10). Our "server" is a G3 IMac, 333 MHz, OS 9.2.2, 192 RAM, 6 GB HD (4.6 available). The server is running Appleshare IP, vers. 6.3 software.

We've been experiencing some connectivity issues recently that require almost daily reboot of the server. We're thinking the server may be getting to the end of its life cycle and want to start looking at replacements. I'd appreciate any info/input regarding server hardware and software. Thanks! Michelle

Michelle Guinn Crowl Montgomery & Clark

Hi Michelle,

We ourselves are looking to upgrade. Your email is in time to get a feedback from other agencies who have recently updated/upgraded.

We are about 22 people - 8 Macs, 14 PCs. We have a G3 PowerMac 233 MHz Server running Appleshare IP 6.3. This server is mainly used for Mac file sharing. We have another Dell Server Pentium I 400 MHz and we run our Email, print sharing, and PC file sharing on this server. We are thinking of replacing both G3 and Dell servers and add a third server for dedicated email services. We plan to use Panther and Windows 2003 Server Software once we upgrade. In addition, we are looking to add VPN capabilities to our shop. I have been debating between hardware based VPN solutions like Netscreen or Nortel's contivity VPN routers and software based solutions like Microsoft's ISA software.

Any suggestions and experience on configuration used by other agencies our size i.e. 15 - 35 people will be appreciated.

With kind regards,

Johnson Paul Controller Campbell Michener & Lee Incorporated

Hi!

If you are experiencing connectivity issues, you may want to take a closer look at how your devices are connecting to your server (Appletalk, SMB etc). In a cross platform environment (especially with XP and a 9.x Apple OS) you can run into a few issues completely unrelated to the age of your hardware. It seems Apple and Microsoft like to change their interpretation of protocol standards with each new OS version or patch they release.

As far as servers go, we run Windows 2000 and 2003 servers at our site. We have a fairly large network with a 50/50 mix of PC's (2k, XP) and Macs (10.2.x, 10.3.x). OS 10.2.8 works well with Windows Servers, however, OS 10.3.3 fixes a lot of the network connectivity issues from the client side (more stable, at least for me). You can easily set up a Microsoft server to run Appletalk / Macintosh services.

The new Mac servers are very nice, and you can get an unlimited user license with an OS-X based server. This is a nice benefit over a Microsoft solution, where each connecting PC needs a device license.

Before you get a new server (Windows or Mac OS), I would highly recommend you sit down with a knowledgeable cross-platform consultant and consider how you see your network growing in the future. Regardless of the Server OS, a cross-platform network requires a strong understanding of how the data "looks" to each OS. Your connectivity issues are an indication you may have some compatibility issues that won't go away when you turn on your new server.

Keep in mind Windows based PC's can connect to an Apple Server and Macs can connect to a Windows Server. You should consider your costs, data storage requirements, future growth, and available technical resources before you make your decision.

Hope this helps!

Ernie Neumann Network Engineer BBFM Creative

DELL w/ tape back up the only way to go!! Call them and they will help you with the size. We are a firm about the same size. We are all on 2000 and XP and OS 10. Call if you need us.

Monika Vendl-McAteer President (CEO & Janitor) Red Chair, Inc

We have a network similar to yours. We use Dell Power Vault storage servers. Have not had a single server issue in 18 months. Always on and problem free.

Tim Kubista
Breukelman Kubista Group www.b-k-g.com http://www.b-k-g.com

We have a Compaq ProLiant Server with a RAID that is our primary file server. It runs Windows 2000 Server and houses our creative files and our C&P database. The file server is running Services for Macintosh, as we're running a mix of OSX and OS9 clients in addition to our 10 or so Windows clients. The only possible challenge here is ensuring all OSX users are connected to the C&P partition using AFP not SMB, as the SMB is not compatible with multi-user databases. We have never had a problem.

We have a separate box that we use only for Terminal Services, so remote (VPN) users can log in (using Windows OR Mac OSX) and use Remote Desktop to launch C&P.

Our e-mail, website, firewall and VPN services are handled by our in-house Linux server.

We upgraded to this setup about a year and a half ago (from Novell -- agh). Earlier this year, we upgraded our network switch and other infrastructure.

Both steps have helped us to build a very stable, reliable network.

I agree with the recommendation to meet with a cross-platform specialist who understands the unique challenges to running multi-platform shops AND multiuser databases like C&P. These people are few and far between, in our experience.

-- Richard Heend

Hi Michelle,

We recently installed a new Dell server w/Windows server 2003. All of our PC's and Mac's work together here. We have MAC SHARE on this server. We also had a server that we had to replace because of age. We decided to put all of our Data on the new Dell and have a second smaller server that will handle our email and website only. This helps to eliminate the space problem with one server and allow us to run more efficiently.

Wendy Lokan Accounting Manager RV Brandau Marketing, Inc.

we have 20+ users (all Mac, but a mix of OS 9.2.2 and OS 10) using a PowerMac G4 running Xserve (10.2.8) and have not had any server crashes in well over a year. Prior to that we were running (on the same G4 tower...) Appleshare IP/Mac OS 9.2.2 and experienced several crashes per week. hope this helps,

pedro

We are on an upgraded server - Dell - and Windows 2003 Server, just swapped out from Novell the beginning of this year because of ongoing connectivity problems and issues with compatibility of software including Clients & Profits, GoldMine and more. I hope we made the right decision!

I'll look forward to anyone elses feedback or experiences ... or things to watch for!

Jennifer Larsen Morrow Creative Company, Inc. www.creativeco.com

Have you had any issues with Macs running OS 9 or OSX "speaking" with the Dell server? We have almost all Macs, some on OS 9, some on OS X (we're migrating slowly due to issues with Quark) and one PC. Our current server is very similar to the one described by Michelle. Thanks.

-- Adam Schnitzler Creative Director S3 www.s3s3s3.com

Thanks, Ernie,

What a great response--thanks! I may be emailing you in the future with some more questions. I really appreciate the input and am taking to heart your suggestion about consulting with a cross-platform specialist before making any decisions.

Michelle Guinn Crowl, Montgomery, and Clark

Server: iMac G3 400 MHz 128 MB RAM OS 9.2.2 AppleShare IP Version 6.3 Server Software Also on this machine are: Now Contact Public Contact Server Now Up To Date Public Events Server

Clients are: Mac OS 9.2.2 Mac OS X 10.1 Mac OS X 10.3 Clients & Profits Classic version 5.01

Ours is an incredibly stable environment. Crash frequency since we brought this in house has been MAYBE once per year. The key is that there is plenty of empty space available on the server hard drive. This allows the installed RAM to interact with the drive very efficiently. Also Virtual Memory is enabled with 129MB allocated.

Dannielle Hernandez Baker | Brand Communications

Hi Richard,

Just a couple of questions on your setup.

- Does your Compaq ProLiant Server house your Creative as well as front office MS Office files. How is the speed for Macs accessing their Quark Express or Photoshop files that are an average 250MB size. - What software do you use for your Terminal Services.

Thanks for your help,

Johnson Paul

Hi, Thanks for the information; it is very helpful. One more question: tell me about your backup system for your server. I forgot to put that in my initial inquiry.

Michelle Guinn Crowl, Montgomery, and Clark

We use a G4 450 mhz, OSX Panther - always on. Tape back-up. No snags for about one year - ending this month. Cross fingers and good luck. Rebooted server maybe twice for upgrades.

Pete

I recently upgraded from a Beige G3 server running Appleshare 6.1 (which has been running fine for years) to a G4 tower running 10.2.8 Server. We immediately started having database corruption - bad enough that I moved the database back to the old server where it's been running fine for 2 days.

I would like to run on the newer machine (faster processor, more RAM, etc.) but with these major corruption issues I can't. Tech support wants to blame the hardware (network or computer). I can't find anything wrong with the machine.

Anyone have ideas?

User

We have the C&P database running on a G3 Mac Tower - 300 MHz, OS9.2.2 running Appleshare IP version 6.3. We had constant trouble on a G4 that we were using over a year ago . . . So, we switched to our old trusty G3, re-installed everything on it, put in all new cables and haven't had a single problem since. We are all Mac based at this time (we previously had a couple of PCs, but got rid of them).

Jody Breiland McClenahan

We use a Sony AIT Tape Library. We chose it for a number of reasons, including reliability, speed and expandability. We wanted something that would grow with us... and this fit the bill. We use the Veritas Backup Exec software. Backups rarely fail. In fact, when it does, I can usually trace it to C&P: for example, an error on someone's workstation or on the My C&P web server prevents it from logging out.

I have used other backup software (like RetroSpect) and found it to be sorely lacking. Once it is set up, Veritas runs itself. It's incredibly easy to restore files from backup. I take the previous night's backup home with me each night and swap the tapes when I come in each morning. The library holds 14 tapes and a cleaning cartridge.

Let me know if you need anymore information -- I know this can be an excruciating decision-making process.

-rich --- Richard Heend

Johnson,

Yes, the server has files for both Creative and the front office (Account Managers, mostly Word and Excel files). I should mention we're relatively small, with just 11 employees, so network traffic isn't a huge issue.

We have not had a problem with Quark files over the network, although technically speaking I don't think Quark this configuration. (That's an entirely different discussion for a different message board. :)

We haven't had a problem working with PhotoShop files over the network, either. If your network is fast (at least 100 Base-T, if not gigabit) and your switch is reliable, you should be OK.

For Terminal Services, we're using the built-in functionality in Win2K Server. Windows XP Pro comes with the client software. You can download the client for Win2K. And for Mac OSX, you can download the client from mactopia.com (Microsoft's Mac website). It's called Remote Desktop Connection.

Since our domain and firewall are controlled by our Linux server, we needed a VPN solution and found one in a free program called PopTop. We have a Linux consultant who helped us install and configure it, and it works great. It's also more secure since we first login to the VPN, then connect to Remote Desktop with the machine's internal IP address. This VPN solution is compatible with Mac OSX's PPTP VPN connectivity as well as Microsoft's built-in client.

Please let me know if you have any more questions -- either here in the forum or via e-mail if it gets too specific to your situation to be appropriate.

Richard Heend

Adam,

You can have a few issues with 9.x and Windows 2000, but most of them can be avoided by configuring the server correctly when you install it. Even OS-X and 2003 can have issues; primarily with authentication (the fix is easy). You can find great compatibility information on both Apple's and Microsoft's web sites. Another great resource is the microsoft.public.win2000.macintosh newsgroup, where you can post questions and browse past discussions on this very topic.

The biggest issue I have come across is losing data tags when copying data from an NTFS (Windows) drive to another NTFS (Windows or Tape) drive. Definitely test your backup after you move to a Windows server before you have a situation that requires a restore. You'll want to know if this is an issue for you before you have a failure; no data tags means you can't open the file. Fortunately, there are 3rd party apps you can run to avoid this problem. (Dave, FileBuddy, etc).

Regards,

Ernie Neumann BBFM Creative

Ken,

Did you add third-party RAM to the G4 tower, or did it come from Apple with factory RAM? There have been quite a few instances where bad RAM caused problems. I know it sounds like an excuse, but it's well documented:

http://www.macintouch.com/badram02.html

The faster the computers get, the more sensitive to timing issues in the RAM chips themselves. That caused data to be saved at inconsistent and unpredictable times in both the operating system, which has a direct effect on multi-user databases like ours. We've had the problem ourselves from time to time so now only buy RAM from RamJet.

Mark Robillard Founder/Creative Director, Clients & Profits

Start with 10.3 on the Server. Up until that version there were a lot of network issues with X. The version you have was even pulled off the shelf for awhile because of some really bad ethernet problems.

Jim Kennedy

Hi,

We're a PC shop (our core business is advanced web system development and hosting) and I can confirm that flakey memory has caused us problems in the past. In one case it took months of debugging a cranky server before we discovered that its intermittent crashes were caused by a bad memory chip. Cheap memory can be extremely(!) expensive.

Another source of pesky problems can be "bargain" NIC cards. There's a reason why 3Com cards are 3 times the price of consumer cards - they hold up under pressure.

Hope this helps,

Ken Dickson Principal Xynapse Canada Inc. E-Business / NewMedia